Heavy Duty Heroes – Printers Built for Hard Paper Printing
If you’re looking for a hard paper printer, here are the top options for different needs:
- Best Overall: Canon PIXMA Pro-100 (handles up to 120 lb cardstock with rear feed)
- Best Budget: Epson EcoTank ET-2800 (supports up to 110 lb through rear tray)
- Best for Business: HP OfficeJet Pro 9135e (processes up to 80 lb cardstock reliably)
- Best for Production: Canon Pixma TS9520 (accommodates 13×19″ cardstock through straight path)
A hard paper printer is a specialized printing device designed to handle thicker, more rigid materials than standard copy paper. Unlike regular printers, these workhorses feature reinforced paper paths, stronger feed mechanisms, and specialized trays to prevent jams when processing heavyweight cardstock, cover stock, and specialty media.
“I almost cried the first time it printed correctly,” shares one small business owner who struggled to find a reliable solution for printing on 120 lb coverstock. This sentiment echoes across many professionals who need to produce high-quality materials on substantial paper.
Hard paper printers typically support media ranging from 60 gsm (standard copy paper) up to 350 gsm (ultra-thick cardstock), with most models featuring a straight-through paper path to minimize bending. This makes them ideal for creating professional business cards, invitations, greeting cards, product packaging, and marketing materials that require that premium, substantial feel.
When shopping for a hard paper printer, look for models that specifically mention support for cardstock, coverstock, or high gsm ratings. The best options will feature either a rear feed tray or a specialty media path that minimizes paper bending during the printing process.
What Is a Hard Paper Printer & Why It Matters
A hard paper printer is the unsung hero of professional printing – built from the ground up to handle materials that would make standard printers wave the white flag. These specialized machines aren’t just regular printers with a fancy name; they’re engineered differently to manage the weight and rigidity of cardstock and specialty papers without jamming or damaging your materials.
Think about the last time you received a premium business card or wedding invitation. That substantial feel in your hands? That’s the magic of proper cardstock printing. When clients or loved ones receive materials printed on quality heavyweight paper, they instantly recognize the professionalism and care behind it. Digital alternatives simply can’t replicate that tactile experience.
What makes a true hard paper printer stand out from standard models? It’s all in the design:
- A straight-through paper path that minimizes bending, preventing those frustrating creases and jams
- Dedicated rear feed slots that create a direct highway for thick media
- Beefed-up duty cycles built to handle the extra strain of moving heavyweight papers
- Intelligent media settings that automatically optimize print quality for thick stocks
- Reinforced feed mechanisms with motors and rollers strong enough to move rigid materials without hesitation
“My printer changed everything for our small stationery business,” shares one of our customers. “Before, we were outsourcing all our cardstock printing. Now we control quality and turnaround times completely.”
One limitation worth noting: most hard paper printers have some restrictions when it comes to automatic duplex (double-sided) printing on very thick media. Papers heavier than 80-100 lb typically require manual flipping for two-sided printing, as the paper path for automatic duplexing involves too many bends for rigid stock to steer safely.
Key Differences From Regular Printers
The gap between your standard office printer and a true hard paper printer goes much deeper than what you’ll find on a spec sheet. These machines are built differently from the inside out.
First, let’s talk about the rollers. In a hard paper printer, these aren’t just the same components with a different label – they’re reinforced transport systems made from more durable materials with special coatings that provide better grip without damaging delicate paper surfaces. They maintain consistent pressure across the entire width of your cardstock, preventing that annoying skewing that happens when regular printers try to handle thick media.
If you’re looking at laser-based hard paper printers, the fuser temperature is another crucial difference. Standard laser printers often struggle with cardstock because their fusers (which melt toner onto the page) can’t maintain adequate heat when faced with the thermal mass of heavyweight paper. Specialized models solve this with more powerful heating elements and smarter temperature control systems.
The motors tell another part of the story. A hard paper printer packs substantially more torque than standard models – essential muscle for moving rigid media through the printer without hesitation or slippage. These motors pair with robust gearing systems designed to handle increased loads without wearing out prematurely.
Perhaps most overlooked is the brain behind the operation. The firmware in true hard paper printers comes with sophisticated media presets that automatically adjust numerous parameters – from feed speed to print head height to color saturation – based on the selected paper type. This intelligent adaptation ensures beautiful results across diverse media without requiring you to become a printing engineer.
Supported Hard Paper Types & Finishes
Modern hard paper printers handle an impressive range of materials that would make standard printers jam in protest. Quality models typically support everything from standard 60 gsm (20 lb) copy paper up to premium 350 gsm (130 lb) cardstock – covering the full spectrum from lightweight brochure stock to rigid business cards and presentation covers.
The surface finishes compatible with hard paper printers offer endless creative possibilities:
Matte papers provide a non-reflective finish perfect for readability and professional documents where glare would be distracting. Glossy stocks deliver that highly reflective surface that makes colors pop – ideal for photo reproduction and marketing materials that need to catch the eye.
For formal invitations and premium business stationery, linen finish papers with their woven fabric-like texture add a touch of sophistication. Environmentally conscious businesses appreciate that modern hard paper printers handle recycled stocks with varying textures and compositions without sacrificing quality.
When your project needs that extra special touch, shimmer and metallic papers with their subtle sparkle effect create memorable impressions. Even heavily textured boards with embossed patterns or distinctive surfaces feed smoothly through properly designed hard paper printers.
Each finish presents unique challenges – glossy surfaces require precise ink application to prevent smudging, while textured media needs carefully adjusted print heads to maintain image quality across uneven surfaces. Not all hard paper printers handle every finish equally well. Inkjet models typically excel with photographic and specialty finishes, while laser printers often provide superior results on matte and linen stocks where crisp text is the priority.
At Associated Imaging Solutions, we help Philadelphia businesses find the perfect hard paper printer for their specific media needs, ensuring you get professional results on every project.
Hard Paper Printer Technologies & Must-Have Features
When shopping for a hard paper printer, understanding the underlying technologies and key features will save you countless headaches down the road. The market offers two main technologies—inkjet and laser—each bringing distinct advantages to your cardstock printing projects.
A quality hard paper printer should include several essential features that make all the difference when working with thick media. Look for an adjustable platen gap that lets you customize the distance between the print head and paper surface—this single feature can prevent countless jams when switching between different cardstock thicknesses. A specialty bypass tray provides that crucial straight paper path that keeps your cardstock from bending and creasing.
“Choosing the right paper type and thickness in your printer settings before printing” is advice we share with all our clients at Associated Imaging Solutions. This simple step dramatically reduces jam risks and ensures beautiful results, regardless of which printer technology you select.
When evaluating options, consider how your specific needs align with each technology’s strengths:
Feature | Inkjet Hard Paper Printers | Laser Hard Paper Printers |
---|---|---|
Color quality | Superior, especially for photos | Good for graphics, less vibrant |
Text sharpness | Good with pigment inks | Excellent, laser-precise |
Media flexibility | Excellent (60-350 gsm) | Good (60-220 gsm typically) |
Print speed | Moderate | Fast |
Cost per page | Higher for color | Lower for text-heavy documents |
Initial investment | Lower entry cost | Higher entry cost |
Borderless printing | Yes, on most models | Limited availability |
Beyond the basic technology choice, look for models with manual feed capability for precise control when loading delicate materials, media sensor technology that automatically detects paper thickness, and robust paper transport systems that maintain consistent movement without slippage. The best printers also offer advanced media settings that give you fine-tuned control over how ink or toner is applied to different paper types.
Inkjet Dominance for Color-Rich Projects
For vibrant, detailed images on heavyweight stock, inkjet technology has established clear leadership in the hard paper printer market. The reasons become obvious when you see your first perfectly printed wedding invitation or photo greeting card.
The pigment density achievable with modern inkjet systems creates images with remarkable depth and richness. Unlike dye-based inks that simply sit on the paper’s surface, pigment particles actually embed themselves into the paper fibers. This creates deeper, more saturated colors that won’t fade over time—particularly valuable when printing on textured cardstocks where maintaining color consistency across an uneven surface would otherwise be challenging.
One of the biggest advantages of inkjet hard paper printers is their borderless printing capability. Most models can print edge-to-edge on cardstock up to 13×19 inches, eliminating that annoying need for post-print trimming. Imagine creating professional-looking greeting cards and marketing materials without those distracting white borders!
Small business owners and creative professionals particularly appreciate the fade resistance of quality pigment inks. When a client displays your business card in their office for years, or a family treasures a custom greeting card, that durability matters. Premium models like the Canon PIXMA Pro-100 produce prints with an estimated 100-year lifespan when using archival papers and inks.
The versatility of inkjet technology makes it perfect for hard paper printing projects where visual impact matters most. The ability to reproduce subtle color gradations, photographic details, and even specialized finishes like metallic or pearlescent effects simply can’t be matched by other printing technologies in the same price range.
Laser Strength for Speed & Razor-Sharp Text
While inkjets shine for colorful projects, laser technology offers compelling advantages for text-focused hard paper printing needs. If your business regularly produces certificates, forms, or presentation materials where crisp text and rapid output are priorities, a laser printer deserves serious consideration.
The instant-dry nature of laser printing is a game-changer when working with cardstock. Unlike inkjet prints that need drying time, laser-printed documents can be handled immediately without smudging. This feature proves invaluable in busy office environments where you need rapid turnaround on marketing materials or presentation covers printed on substantial stock.
Professional-grade laser hard paper printers come equipped with heavy-duty fusers that ensure consistent toner adhesion across various cardstock weights. These robust components maintain optimal temperature even when processing multiple sheets of thick media back-to-back. The result? Crisp, permanent text and graphics that won’t flake or fade, even with regular handling.
For busy offices with diverse printing needs, laser hard paper printers offer exceptional versatility. Models like the HP OfficeJet Pro 9135e transition seamlessly between everyday documents on standard paper and specialty projects on cardstock without requiring manual reconfiguration. This flexibility proves particularly valuable when multiple team members with varying requirements share printing resources.
The economic advantages become especially apparent in high-volume scenarios. The cost per page for monochrome laser printing on cardstock runs substantially lower than comparable inkjet output, making laser printers the fiscally responsible choice for text-dominant applications that require heavyweight paper. Your accounting department will thank you when they see the difference in operational costs over time.
2025 Roundup – Best Hard Paper Printer Categories
Finding the perfect hard paper printer feels a bit like searching for a unicorn – you need something special that can handle thick media without constant paper jams or disappointing results. Thankfully, the 2024 market offers some truly impressive options that make cardstock printing more accessible than ever before.
We’ve carefully evaluated dozens of printers, focusing on features that matter most for handling heavyweight media. The standouts all offer that crucial straight-path design that prevents your beautiful cardstock from getting bent out of shape. They also provide reliable feed mechanisms that won’t leave you fishing crumpled paper out of printer innards (we’ve all been there, right?).
What separates the good from the great is attention to details like specialty trays designed specifically for thick media and intuitive controls that make adjusting settings for different paper types surprisingly painless. We’ve organized our findings into three categories to help you find your perfect match, whether you’re crafting at home or running a busy print shop.
Hard Paper Printer for Home Creators
Home creators need a hard paper printer that won’t break the bank or take over the entire craft room. The Epson EcoTank ET-2800 hits this sweet spot beautifully, handling cardstock up to 110 lb (300 gsm) while maintaining a footprint small enough to sit comfortably on your desk or craft table.
What makes this printer special isn’t just its ability to handle thick paper – it’s how it makes the whole experience stress-free. The rear feed tray provides that essential straight path, guiding your precious cardstock through without bending it into oblivion. And unlike many printers that require a engineering degree to configure properly, the ET-2800 often works beautifully on regular settings, as one crafter mentioned: “I don’t need special settings for cardstock – it just works!”
Perhaps most appealing for occasional crafters is the refillable tank system. We’ve all experienced the frustration of returning to a neglected printer only to find dried-up cartridges that need replacing before you’ve printed a single project. The ET-2800’s tanks remain ready for months between uses, and a single set of ink bottles can handle thousands of pages. This means you can experiment with different cardstock projects without watching your wallet empty with each creative impulse.
For scrapbookers, card makers, and DIY wedding invitation designers, the ET-2800’s precision with detailed designs and ability to handle textured papers opens up a world of possibilities that standard printers simply can’t match.
Hard Paper Printer for Small Offices
Small businesses need versatility without complexity when it comes to hard paper printer solutions. The HP OfficeJet Pro 9135e shines in this environment, offering that rare unicorn of features: automatic duplex printing on media up to 80 lb (220 gsm). If you’ve ever manually flipped stacks of cardstock to print both sides, you’ll appreciate what a time-saver this is for creating professional brochures and presentation materials.
When you need to go even heavier – up to 110 lb – the manual feed option delivers excellent results with minimal fuss. The intuitive interface makes switching between everyday printing and specialty cardstock projects remarkably straightforward, even for the least tech-savvy team members.
The network and mobile printing capabilities prove invaluable in collaborative settings. Need to print that proposal on premium cardstock right before a client meeting? Anyone on your team can send it directly from their phone or laptop without complicated setup procedures or software installations. This accessibility ensures that producing professional materials remains simple for everyone, regardless of technical expertise.
Small businesses watching their bottom line will appreciate the smart tank system that balances economy with convenience. With up to 3 months of ink included and the option to enroll in HP’s Instant Ink program, you can maintain predictable printing costs even when regularly producing ink-hungry cardstock materials.
The professional quality this printer delivers on heavyweight stock creates that polished impression that helps small businesses look established and trustworthy – from custom appointment cards to branded folders, all produced in-house without outsourcing costs.
Hard Paper Printer for Production Shops
When your business depends on printing thousands of cardstock items, your hard paper printer needs industrial-grade performance. The Canon Pixma TS9520 delivers capabilities typically found only in much more expensive equipment, making it an exceptional value for production environments.
This workhorse supports tabloid-size (11×17 inches) cardstock up to 110 lb (300 gsm) and handles 13×19 inch paper through its straight path – dimensions that accommodate everything from oversized greeting cards to presentation folders. The 250,000-page monthly duty cycle ensures it won’t break a sweat under continuous use, unlike consumer-grade printers that quickly deteriorate when pushed to their limits.
As one small business owner who produces greeting cards for an Etsy shop reported, “The Pixma TS9520 laughed in the face of my heavy paper.” This real-world performance validates what production managers need most: reliability when deadlines loom and clients are waiting.
The multi-bin stacker transforms workflow efficiency by allowing simultaneous loading of different cardstock weights and sizes. Imagine queuing varied jobs – business cards, presentation folders, marketing materials – and letting the printer automatically select the appropriate media for each. This feature alone can save hours of manual intervention during busy production periods.
Here at Associated Imaging Solutions, we’ve helped numerous production shops across Pennsylvania implement hard paper printing solutions custom to their specific needs. Our Philadelphia-based experts understand that production environments have unique challenges and can provide personalized recommendations based on your output requirements and growth projections – ensuring you get a system that works today and scales with your business tomorrow.
Pro Tips: Loading, Printing & Maintaining Hard Paper
Getting the most from your hard paper printer isn’t just about having the right equipment—it’s also about technique. Even the best cardstock printer can struggle when paper isn’t loaded correctly or maintenance is neglected. Let’s explore some practical wisdom that will help you achieve professional results every time.
Pay close attention to loading orientation when working with cardstock. Some printers need heavyweight paper loaded face-up, while others require face-down positioning. This might seem like a small detail, but it makes all the difference between perfect prints and frustrating paper jams. When in doubt, check your printer’s manual for specific guidance.
Most people don’t realize how much humidity affects cardstock. Heavy paper loves to absorb moisture from the air, which can cause it to warp or expand slightly—just enough to create feeding problems. Try to store your cardstock in a climate-controlled environment (30-50% humidity is ideal) and give it time to adjust to your printing area before using it.
Understanding paper grain direction can be a game-changer for hard paper printing. Paper fibers align during manufacturing, creating a “grain” similar to wood. Loading cardstock with the grain running parallel to the feed path (long-edge grain) dramatically reduces resistance and prevents jams. When possible, look for cardstock that specifies grain direction on the packaging.
Don’t overlook your printer driver settings when working with heavy paper. Most quality printers include specific presets for different cardstock weights and finishes. Taking a moment to select the correct media type (rather than just clicking “thick paper”) results in better color reproduction, crisper text, and more reliable feeding.
Step-by-Step Loading Checklist
The way you handle cardstock before it goes into your hard paper printer makes a huge difference in your results. Here’s my tried-and-true approach that prevents most common problems:
Always fan your sheets before loading them. Hold the stack at one corner and gently bend it to let air circulate between the sheets. This simple step breaks the static bond that can cause multiple sheets to feed at once—a particular problem with thicker papers.
Resist the temptation to fully load your paper tray. Hard paper printers work much more reliably with smaller batches of 5-10 sheets of cardstock at a time. This reduces the weight and resistance the feed mechanism needs to overcome.
Take a moment to adjust your side guides precisely. They should fit snugly against the paper width with minimal clearance—not so loose that the paper can shift sideways during feeding, but not so tight that they create excessive friction.
I always recommend running a test print on a single sheet before committing to a full batch. This quick check identifies any issues with media compatibility or printer settings before you waste expensive cardstock on failed prints. It’s a small step that can save both money and frustration.
Remember to store leftover cardstock flat in a sealed container or plastic bag. This prevents moisture absorption and edge warping that can make future printing problematic. Avoid using rubber bands or paper clips that can create permanent creases in heavyweight paper.
“I learned the hard way that not all printer output trays are created equal,” shares one of our Philadelphia customers. Most hard paper printers can hold fewer sheets of cardstock in their output trays than standard paper, so be sure to check your output tray capacity and clear it more frequently during big jobs.
Maintenance & Ink/Toner Care
Your hard paper printer needs a little extra TLC when regularly handling heavyweight stock. These maintenance practices will keep it running smoothly for years:
Clean your feed rollers regularly to remove the paper dust and debris that accumulate more quickly when processing cardstock. Most manufacturers recommend using isopropyl alcohol on a lint-free cloth, with the printer powered off. This simple habit dramatically reduces feed failures and improves print alignment. We’ve seen printers go from constant jams to perfect reliability after just one good roller cleaning.
Pay attention to your pickup tires and replace them at the first sign of wear or slippage. These rubber components face accelerated wear when regularly handling heavy paper, directly affecting feed reliability. Many hard paper printers allow for user-replaceable pickup assemblies, making this an easy DIY maintenance task.
Invest in pigment inks or high-adhesion toner formulated specifically for cardstock. Standard consumables might look fine initially but often lack durability on heavyweight media. Specialty formulations ensure better color permanence, scratch resistance, and overall longevity—especially important for business cards or marketing materials that need to make a lasting impression.
Don’t forget to schedule regular calibration to maintain color accuracy and alignment precision. The physical stresses of processing thick media can gradually affect printer alignment, resulting in subtle quality degradation over time. Most professional-grade hard paper printers include built-in calibration utilities that should be run monthly.
The environment around your printer matters more than you might think. Monitor temperature and humidity in your printing area, as fluctuations affect both printer components and paper properties. Aim for a stable environment between 65-75°F with moderate humidity for best results.
At Associated Imaging Solutions, we understand the unique demands of hard paper printing. Our managed print services include preventive maintenance specifically customized for cardstock-compatible printers. Our technicians across Pennsylvania can help keep your equipment performing at its best, whether you’re printing occasional greeting cards or running daily production batches of business materials.
Frequently Asked Questions About Hard Paper Printers
How thick can a hard paper printer handle safely?
“I bought a printer claiming to handle cardstock, but it jammed on the first try!” This frustration is all too common when expectations don’t match reality. The truth is, hard paper printer capabilities vary significantly between models.
Most consumer-grade printers comfortably handle media up to 80-110 lb (220-300 gsm), while professional-grade models can process heavier stock up to 140 lb (380 gsm). The real workhorses—specialized production printers—can tackle materials as heavy as 350 gsm without breaking a sweat.
Finding your printer’s true limits is straightforward but important. Check the manufacturer’s specifications for “Media Weight Supported” ratings, noting that different paper paths (main tray, rear feed, specialty tray) often have different maximum weights. Always test with a single sheet before committing to a larger job—your printer might physically accept a sheet that’s too thick, but the quality might suffer.
Just because you can push your printer to its absolute limits doesn’t mean you should. For consistently reliable results and longer equipment life, stay within the manufacturer’s recommended range rather than testing the boundaries regularly.
For truly heavy materials that exceed standard printer capabilities, specialized equipment like line matrix printers might be necessary—something our team at Associated Imaging Solutions can help you evaluate based on your specific needs.
Why does my printer curl heavy cardstock?
There’s nothing more disappointing than printing beautiful invitations only to have them curl up like ancient scrolls! This common frustration with hard paper printers usually stems from a few fixable issues.
Moisture imbalance tops the list of culprits. When one side of your cardstock gets wet with ink while the other stays dry, the paper naturally curves toward the dry side. Think of it like wetting one side of a sponge—it always bends toward the dry portion. You can fight this by:
- Storing your cardstock in a controlled environment (not the humid basement!)
- Letting paper sit in your printing area for 24 hours before use
- Using printer settings that apply less ink when possible
- Pre-conditioning very thick stock by exposing both sides to similar humidity
Heat is another common enemy, especially with laser hard paper printers. Those high temperatures needed to bond toner to thick paper can temporarily warp the stock. Try selecting “Heavy Paper” mode in your settings (this adjusts the fuser temperature), using the straightest possible paper path, and letting prints cool completely before handling them.
Paper grain direction plays a surprisingly important role too. Paper fed perpendicular to its grain (short-grain) curls more readily than long-grain stock. Whenever possible, choose cardstock with grain running parallel to your printer’s feed direction for the flattest results.
What settings give the sharpest photo quality on hard paper?
“My photos looked amazing on screen but printed like a blurry mess on cardstock!” We hear this complaint often, but with the right settings, your hard paper printer can produce gallery-worthy results.
Resolution settings make a world of difference. Crank them up to maximum (at least 4800×2400 dpi for most photo-capable printers) when printing images on cardstock. Yes, this slows down the printing process, but the crisp detail is worth the wait, especially on textured cardstock where every dot counts.
The paper type selection in your printer settings matters more than most people realize. Don’t just choose generic “cardstock”—be specific! Select “Premium Glossy Photo Paper” or “Matte Presentation Paper” to match your actual media. These specialized presets adjust everything from ink saturation to print head height for optimal results.
Color management often separates amateur results from professional quality. For most users, letting the printer handle color management (rather than your photo editing software) produces better results. If your printer offers rendering intent options, “Perceptual” typically works best for photographs, preserving the visual relationships between colors.
One simple trick professional photographers use: slow things down. Many hard paper printers offer “High Quality” or “Maximum Quality” modes that reduce print head speed for more precise dot placement. The extra minutes of printing time translate to noticeably sharper images, especially in detailed areas like hair or foliage.
For businesses across Pennsylvania looking to perfect their photo printing on cardstock, our color specialists at Associated Imaging Solutions in Philadelphia can create custom color profiles custom to your specific media and equipment. Sometimes that personalized touch makes all the difference between good prints and great ones.
Conclusion
The journey through hard paper printing has shown us just how far this technology has come. Today’s hard paper printers offer remarkable capabilities for everyone from home crafters to production shops, making it easier than ever to create professional materials on substantial stock that leaves a lasting impression.
Choosing the right hard paper printer isn’t just about finding a device that can physically accept thick paper. The most successful matches happen when you consider the complete picture: paper path design (straight-through is best!), feed reliability (those reinforced rollers make all the difference), and the actual print quality on your specific media. Finding that sweet spot where performance meets your budget is what makes for a truly satisfying purchase.
Here in Pennsylvania, we’ve helped countless businesses steer these choices. At Associated Imaging Solutions, we’ve built our reputation on understanding the unique document needs of organizations across the state. Whether you’re a wedding planner in Philadelphia needing vibrant invitation printing, a Pittsburgh marketing firm producing premium brochures, or a Harrisburg non-profit creating distinctive fundraising materials, we bring local expertise with a personal touch.
What makes us different is our people-first approach. We won’t just sell you a printer and disappear. Our team takes the time to understand your specific hard paper printing needs, recommending solutions that truly fit rather than pushing the latest model. And with our managed print services, we’ll keep your cardstock printing running smoothly with timely maintenance, supplies management, and ongoing support.
“We thought we needed a whole new printer,” one small business owner told us recently, “but your team showed us how to properly configure our existing one for cardstock. You saved us thousands!” Stories like this remind us why we love what we do.
Ready to explore your options for hard paper printing? We’d love to help you find the perfect solution. Our consultations are pressure-free conversations focused on understanding your needs and showing you possibilities you might not have considered. From compact inkjet models for occasional use to industrial-grade systems for high-volume production, we’ll guide you to the option that delivers the best value for your specific situation.
Contact Associated Imaging Solutions today and find how our expertise can help you create impressive materials on heavyweight stock that truly showcase your attention to detail and commitment to quality. Your perfect hard paper printer solution is just a conversation away.